Stuff about Bosnia
So how do you tell if a Bosnian is a Muslim?
He eats pork, drinks cognac, and doesn't pray five times a day.
Yep, a joke, about a very serious issue which the world failed miserably to deal with at the end of the twentieth century. Perusing the blogosphere, the failure of the West - NATO as well as the UN - to do much during the war in Bosnia is still a sore issue with Bosnians (Bosniaks, as they refer to themselves).
Clinton urged NATO and the UN to do more, but only after the political winds blew in that direction, eventually resulting in the Dayton Accords, formally signed in December 1995, which effectively ended the war. But that is not what this blog is about.
The joke above is from a book, written in 1995, by a journalist on the ground throughout most of the war in Bosnia, and reflects accurately the fact that, though Muslims made up a majority in parts of Bosnia, this leading to the war in which Serbs tried desperately to annihalate them, they were, first and foremost Bosnians, Europeans.
A couple of things have led me to dwell on this issue, indeed, to lately have become almost obsessed with the Balkan Wars. There is a blog, some consider it far right, some on the far left consider it racist, but this blog is pro-war on terror, pro-Israel, and unabashedly pro-American (the melting pot, not "white" America); it is an island of sanity in the blogosphere and I have been a lurker, sometimes commenter, over the past several years. However, when the Balkan Wars come into the comments, inevitably there is the "we bombed the wrong side." comment which creeps in. In other words, we should have bombed the Muslim Bosnians, not the Serbs.
Those who hold this view seem to lump Bosnian Muslims in with the Wahhabism espoused by "our friends" the Saudis, Sunni Al Qaeda, the Shi'a of Iran - those who are fundamentalist - this is a serious mistake. Bosnian Muslims were Muslim because their ancestors 400 years previously had converted to Islam after the Islamic conquest of the Balkans, however, they had a unique central European view of their Muslim ancestry. In places like Sarajevo, Muslims had co-existed with Christians for hundreds of years, visiting them at Christmas, celebrating their important days with them, inter-marrying. I will say, in the name of disclosure, that there were a few hundred estimated jihadists in the Balkans during these wars, however they were, like Aukai Collins, free-lancers - outsiders, foreigners, who often stated that those who they were fighting for were not "real" Muslims.
"Real" Muslims or not, they were targeted for genocide by the Serb forces. Now this is not to say that Bosnians did not commit their own atrocities - they did - but the war fought by the Serbs had not been seen in Europe since the second World War.
We now will probably degenerate into random thoughts, with (probably) no clear coherent argument! I will say, though, that immersing myself in books and articles about the Bosnian War, as well as reading about Ahmadinejad's Holocaust "forum" in Iran have caused me to reflect on history, genocide, and exactly what people are willing to do to each other.
The Holocaust is historical fact. Those of us who are historians do not dispute that, from the mid 1930's to 1945, there was a concerted effort on the part of Nazi Germany to kill the Jews of Europe. Those who deny this reality are not historians, indeed, they do not understand the basic concepts of the study of the past. All one has to do is examine the background of those who deny the Holocaust. Dig a bit and you see the "Zionist control" of politics, the media, international banking, one world government, etc... Everything is a conspiracy. There are those who use false constructs and very selective editing of the historical record (Irving), as well as those who manipulate rather questionable data (Faurisson), as well as flat out anti-semites and white supremacists and Hitler apologists to deny that the Holocaust happened. The Jews of europe DID disappear. They often attribute this to Jews moving (???), or, for those in the camps, rampant disease which swept though the camps and killed uncounted thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions....
Whatever.
They are wrong. The Holocaust is a historical fact.
So is the genocide against the Bosnian Muslims.
Those who know me know that I am, let's just say, skeptical of Muslims today. From the Iranian hostage crises of 1979, to the Achille Lauro, Pan Am 103, World Trade Center 1993, Robert Stethem, Khobar Towers, Marine Corps Barracks bombing, African Embassy bombings, USS Cole, 9/11, 7/7, Madrid Train bombings, etc.... Do I really need to go on? Now look at CAIR and the non-flying Imams, the "student" in Boston who wanted a CDL but did NOT want to know how to back up a big rig, yeah there's a lot of stuff going on.
In the early to mid 1990's, though, we should have done more for Bosnian Muslims, who were more European than "Muslim." (Yes, in quotation marks - if you don't understand, sorry, see the joke above!) I still know that there are Muslims who are not Jihadists. Call them apostates if you must, but they consider themselves Muslim, so they are. (And yes, there are huge numbers of moderates in this country.) The Serbs tried to kill all of them because of their religion - a genocide. Though on a smaller scale than in the 1930's and 40's, the desired result was the same. Much like during WWII, as well, the "West" did nothing. The US, or at least Clinton, felt that it was a European issue, never mind that the only remaining world power which could have made an immediate and dramatic difference was the US. Clinton responded to public opinion, which was simply not with the Bosnians at this time, so he threw them under the train.
Anyway, I don't want this to get too long, so I will close and leave you with a word, and the hope that you will follow this link:
Srebrenica
(An upcoming blog will be A LOT of links regarding this issue!)
He eats pork, drinks cognac, and doesn't pray five times a day.
Yep, a joke, about a very serious issue which the world failed miserably to deal with at the end of the twentieth century. Perusing the blogosphere, the failure of the West - NATO as well as the UN - to do much during the war in Bosnia is still a sore issue with Bosnians (Bosniaks, as they refer to themselves).
Clinton urged NATO and the UN to do more, but only after the political winds blew in that direction, eventually resulting in the Dayton Accords, formally signed in December 1995, which effectively ended the war. But that is not what this blog is about.
The joke above is from a book, written in 1995, by a journalist on the ground throughout most of the war in Bosnia, and reflects accurately the fact that, though Muslims made up a majority in parts of Bosnia, this leading to the war in which Serbs tried desperately to annihalate them, they were, first and foremost Bosnians, Europeans.
A couple of things have led me to dwell on this issue, indeed, to lately have become almost obsessed with the Balkan Wars. There is a blog, some consider it far right, some on the far left consider it racist, but this blog is pro-war on terror, pro-Israel, and unabashedly pro-American (the melting pot, not "white" America); it is an island of sanity in the blogosphere and I have been a lurker, sometimes commenter, over the past several years. However, when the Balkan Wars come into the comments, inevitably there is the "we bombed the wrong side." comment which creeps in. In other words, we should have bombed the Muslim Bosnians, not the Serbs.
Those who hold this view seem to lump Bosnian Muslims in with the Wahhabism espoused by "our friends" the Saudis, Sunni Al Qaeda, the Shi'a of Iran - those who are fundamentalist - this is a serious mistake. Bosnian Muslims were Muslim because their ancestors 400 years previously had converted to Islam after the Islamic conquest of the Balkans, however, they had a unique central European view of their Muslim ancestry. In places like Sarajevo, Muslims had co-existed with Christians for hundreds of years, visiting them at Christmas, celebrating their important days with them, inter-marrying. I will say, in the name of disclosure, that there were a few hundred estimated jihadists in the Balkans during these wars, however they were, like Aukai Collins, free-lancers - outsiders, foreigners, who often stated that those who they were fighting for were not "real" Muslims.
"Real" Muslims or not, they were targeted for genocide by the Serb forces. Now this is not to say that Bosnians did not commit their own atrocities - they did - but the war fought by the Serbs had not been seen in Europe since the second World War.
We now will probably degenerate into random thoughts, with (probably) no clear coherent argument! I will say, though, that immersing myself in books and articles about the Bosnian War, as well as reading about Ahmadinejad's Holocaust "forum" in Iran have caused me to reflect on history, genocide, and exactly what people are willing to do to each other.
The Holocaust is historical fact. Those of us who are historians do not dispute that, from the mid 1930's to 1945, there was a concerted effort on the part of Nazi Germany to kill the Jews of Europe. Those who deny this reality are not historians, indeed, they do not understand the basic concepts of the study of the past. All one has to do is examine the background of those who deny the Holocaust. Dig a bit and you see the "Zionist control" of politics, the media, international banking, one world government, etc... Everything is a conspiracy. There are those who use false constructs and very selective editing of the historical record (Irving), as well as those who manipulate rather questionable data (Faurisson), as well as flat out anti-semites and white supremacists and Hitler apologists to deny that the Holocaust happened. The Jews of europe DID disappear. They often attribute this to Jews moving (???), or, for those in the camps, rampant disease which swept though the camps and killed uncounted thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions....
Whatever.
They are wrong. The Holocaust is a historical fact.
So is the genocide against the Bosnian Muslims.
Those who know me know that I am, let's just say, skeptical of Muslims today. From the Iranian hostage crises of 1979, to the Achille Lauro, Pan Am 103, World Trade Center 1993, Robert Stethem, Khobar Towers, Marine Corps Barracks bombing, African Embassy bombings, USS Cole, 9/11, 7/7, Madrid Train bombings, etc.... Do I really need to go on? Now look at CAIR and the non-flying Imams, the "student" in Boston who wanted a CDL but did NOT want to know how to back up a big rig, yeah there's a lot of stuff going on.
In the early to mid 1990's, though, we should have done more for Bosnian Muslims, who were more European than "Muslim." (Yes, in quotation marks - if you don't understand, sorry, see the joke above!) I still know that there are Muslims who are not Jihadists. Call them apostates if you must, but they consider themselves Muslim, so they are. (And yes, there are huge numbers of moderates in this country.) The Serbs tried to kill all of them because of their religion - a genocide. Though on a smaller scale than in the 1930's and 40's, the desired result was the same. Much like during WWII, as well, the "West" did nothing. The US, or at least Clinton, felt that it was a European issue, never mind that the only remaining world power which could have made an immediate and dramatic difference was the US. Clinton responded to public opinion, which was simply not with the Bosnians at this time, so he threw them under the train.
Anyway, I don't want this to get too long, so I will close and leave you with a word, and the hope that you will follow this link:
Srebrenica
(An upcoming blog will be A LOT of links regarding this issue!)
posted by Unknown at 4:23 PM
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